Welcome to The Hot Hero Sandwich Project, the online home of a research project documenting the 1979-1980 Emmy Award-winning NBC Saturday morning children’s educational entertainment television series, Hot Hero Sandwich.
Use the tabs on the left to navigate this extensive archive of articles, interviews, and video, or jump right into some of our most popular posts on right. If you're new, start with the Introductionand learn about the series in A Second Serving! and the FAQ tabs on left. The latest updates are noted in the Updates tab.
New York Times Article. Photograph features (l- r) Paul O'Keefe, L. Michael Craig, and Adam Ross.
Two New Shows Take Aim at Teen‐Age Viewers
By Alex
Ward
Nov. 4,
1979
“You never
see anything on television where children are not made to simply look cute or
are not made fun of,” Dr. Lee Salk, the child psychologist, said recently. “I
would like to make adults more respectful of children. I want to show that they
have something to say about important things — they're just never asked.”
On his new
public‐television series “Feelings,” Dr. Salk attempts to remedy that very
situation: youngsters — most of them adolescents between the ages of 8 and 14 —
are asked what's on their minds. “A lot of people say to me after they've seen
our show, ‘Where did you find such brilliant kids?’ said Dr. Salk. “It's not
that they're so brilliant, it's that they're getting a chance to talk.”
“Feelings,”
which had its premiere last month and is seen locally on Channel 13 at 11:30 on
Saturday mornings, is one of this season's two new television series aimed
primarily at adolescents. This Saturday at noon NBC will unveil “Hot Hero
Sandwich,” an hour‐long collection of rock music, comedy skits and celebrity
interviews that aspires to convey a message, if not a moral. The message,
according to Bruce and Carole Hart, the show's creators, is: You are passing
through a crazy time of life, but don't despair, you are not alone.
“Our show
gives no advice, but we are trying to say that everybody goes through the
changes of adolescence. and they usually feel isolated,” recently explained Mr.
Hart, who shares credits with his wife for the television special “Free to Be
... You and Me” and the made‐for‐television movie “Sooner or Later.” They were
also the original writers for “Sesame Street.”
“We want
to pierce that feeling of isolation,” he said. “If we do, I think we'll help
alleviate some of these problems.”
The intent
of “Feelings” is somewhat similar but is communicated in quite a different
manner. The format of the half‐hour series is a small forum led by Dr. Salk,
who talks with groups of youngsters about their reactions to specific problems.
Each ‘show focuses on a topic — the first one, for instance, was divorce, last
week's was child abuse, this week's will be love — with which all the
participants have had first‐hand experience. Some of the other subjects that
will be discussed in subsequent programs are juvenile delinquency, sexuality,
anger, lying and cheating.
On one
earlier program, Dr. Salk asked handicapped youngsters to describe their
family's reactions to their disability. “My mother went crazy when she heard,”
said David, a 9‐yearold with cerebral palsy. “I was sad, but I knew how to cope
with it. For a kid with nine operations, I'm turning out pretty well.”
Another
youngster, asked if he was ever embarrassed by the spinal disease he suffers
from, said what bothered him was when other children stared. “I call it ‘the
handicapped look,’ “ he said, “and I know what they're thinking. If they just
came up and asked me about it, I wouldn't be shy. I'd tell them about it.”
Dr. Salk,
who has more than 20 years of experience in child psychology, also appears
regularly on ABC's “Good Morning, America” and, as a consultant to NBC, will
have a hand in future segments of “Hot Hero Sandwich.” He refers to “Feelings”
as “a mission I've had for a long time.”
Appropriately
enough, Dr. Salk explained, the series became a reality because his 11‐year‐old
daughter was friendly with the daughter of Judith Moses, a television producer.
The two parents eventually met and discovered a mutual interest in creating
just such a show as “Feelings.”
“I have
been doing television for some time,” said Dr. Salk, “and I had long wanted to
do something exactly like this. Judith was enthusiastic, so we put our minds
together and came up with a format.”
The
youngsters who appear on the program are chosen by Mrs. Moses and her staff,
but they don't meet Dr. Salk until a few minutes before the show is taped.
“It's more natural that way,” he explained. “What I want them to do is let
loose when they talk, let it come out the way it is.”
The
results can be poignant, as when a young girl who has been in jail three times
and is about to be released from reform school, is asked what has gone wrong
with her life. The somber response is: “Just about everything.”
And they
can be funny. In the program on sexuality scheduled to be televised in early
December, a 14‐year‐old girl explains that she and her mother have frequent and
candid conversations about sex. “Does that make you want to go out and ... do
it?” Dr. Salk asks hesitantly.
“You
kidding?” is the reply. “I haven't even had a date yet!”
“When we
were getting started with this series,” Dr. Salk recalled, “a lot of people
told me it wouldn't work. They said we'd never get much out of the children,
and that a discussion‐type show would not be entertaining enough for young
people. Well, I think we've shown that the kids have something to say. As for
our audience, it's impossible for me to know yet who we're reaching. But I also
think it's wrong to think that young people won't watch just because it's a
serious program. I think that judgment is unfair to them.”
TV Program
Listing for Feelings, Dec. 7, 1979.
“Hot Hero
Sandwich,” in contrast, seems based on the more conventional television
approach to adolescents: that a program has to be glossy and lively, or they
won't watch.
Early this
year, the Harts were approached by NBC and asked to tailor a series for the
noon‐to‐1‐P.M. time slot on Saturdays. While early‐Saturday mornings on
television are traditionally the purview of small children, said Mrs. Hart,
“we're told that by 11 or so, the older kids are also watching. In our
particular hour, NBC has told us, 40 percent of the audience is over 18.”
The format
of the new series was left entirely up to the Harts. “The network only
specified that it be a children's show,” Mrs. Hart said. “We decided to aim for
this age group because we feel we have an affinity for it. They are the ‘Sesame
Street’ generation 10 years later.” The couple have no children of their own
but believe that their earlier, successful television programs have given them
insights into what appeals to younger viewers.
Although
“Hot Hero Sandwich” comes stamped with a recommendation from the National
Education Association, it hardly has the look of an educational program. “Kids
today are as hip, or hipper, than we are,” said Mr. Hart, “so we can't have the
show coming across like a Sunday sermon. We have to earn their trust by giving
them the best rock‐and‐roll and the best comedy. Then they can relax and sit
still and listen to somebody say something interesting.”
If
youngsters manage to sit still for “Hot Hero Sandwich” they will find more than
enough movement on the screen, where the individual parts of the program are
virtually cannonballed at them. Pow! Here's a snippit of an interview with
Olivia Newton-John. Pow! Here's the show's own Hot Hero Band, singing their
theme song, “Hot Hero.” Pow! Here's a comedy skit. Pow! Here's a disco number
by Sister Sledge. Pow! Here's an animation sequence. Pow! Here's another piece
of an interview, this time with sports star Bruce Jenner. Pow! Here's a
commercial. Phew!
Overall,
the interviews comprise about 15 of the show's total 49 minutes, but the
segments usually run about a minute each and rarely last longer than three
minutes. “We simply think that what has to be said can be said more effectively
in less time than more time,” said Mrs. Hart in explaining the brevity of these
segments.
The
sketches are performed by the program's seven‐member repertory company— who
range in age from 18 to 28 — and deal with what the Harts call “the universal
problems” of the teenage years. In this Saturday's premiere program, for
instance, there is a skit about a young boy who is angry at his parents because
they are about to get a divorce. His pals at the Hot Hero Café advise him to
take out all his frustrations on the football field at the week's big game.
“There's
nothing you can say in terms of advising somebody about how to behave in a
situation like that,” said Mrs. Hart. “It's a painful and traumatic experience
that has to be lived through. By approaching it through comedy, we show a way
kids, among themselves, can help each other.”
When
queried that the high‐speed, fragmentary format of “Hot Hero Sandwich” might be
disconcerting to some, the Harts defended the construction. “Each scene of the
program is connected to the next,” said Mr. Hart. “Though we are using
fragments, our fragments form a mosaic. For instance, subjects that are
discussed in the interviews often dovetail with the skit material. When Ronnie
Howard told us about his first date with his wife — she asked him out because
he was too shy — it was almost exactly like one of the skits. And the skit had
been written before the interview.”
The lineup
of celebrity interviewees, which the Harts say they selected from most‐admired
lists in magazine polls of teen‐agers, includes a cross‐section of show
business, sports, journalism and political figures. Among them are Coretta
Scott King, Henry Fonda, the Rev. Jesse Jackson, Richard Pryor, Christopher
Reeve, Beverly Sills, Gloria Steinem, Kurt Vonnegut, Barbara Walters, Carl
Bernstein, Judy Blume, Cheryl Tiegs, Julius Erving and Kareem Abdul‐Jabbar.
Like the
skits, the interviews touch on the gamut of teen‐age experiences, from first
dates, nicknames and pimples to relationships with parents and siblings,
divorce and death in the family. They are conducted by Dr. Thomas J. Cottle, a
clinical psychologist and sociologist from Boston, who calls them “the
emotional spine of the show.”
“There is
a great identity of young people with these celebrities,” said Dr. Cottle, “and
when they discuss their own adolescence it's significant. I buy the notion that
without identification with others, there can't be an emergence of one's own
identity.”
“Hot
Hero's” time slot is late enough that the Harts hope the show will attract some
parents, too. “Teen‐age kids and their parents often have a hard time getting
through to one another,” said Mrs. Hart, “and we hope our show will create a
little intergenerational communication.”
Parts of
the series should strike a responsive chord with many older viewers. At one
point in the second week's program, Coretta King, reminiscing about her own
childhood, talks fondly of how she and her friends used to make their own toys.
“Of
course,” she says, “my own children wouldn't have known anything about that.
All they wanted to do was watch television.”
Welcome to The Hot Hero Sandwich Project, the online home of a research project documenting the 1979-1980 Emmy Award-winning NBC Saturday morning children’s educational entertainment television series, Hot Hero Sandwich.
Use the tabs on the left to navigate this extensive archive of articles, interviews, and video, or jump right into some of our most popular posts on right. If you're new, start with the Introductionand learn about the series in A Second Serving! and the FAQ tabs on left. The latest updates are noted in the Updates tab.
While there has been few reports of
any surviving relics from Hot Hero
Sandwich, here’s one that just turned up in my searches, albeit a bit too
late for me to snag them. Here is a collection of cels from the music video from
episode 6 for "Wild Night" by Martha Reeves and the Vandellas that were up for suction.
Description of the auction from the website Heritage Auctions:
“Here's a set of eight hand-colored
Xerox prints from a music video, directed by Al Jarnow. The images are of
rotoscoped women dancing to the tune of “Wild Night” by Martha Reeves (this
cover version of the Van Morrison song was also featured in the hit film Thelma and Louise). These hand-colored
prints are mounted on 12 field animation paper, and used in the video.
Cool-looking sequence! The image area on each sheet is approximately 8’ x 5.25.”
Overall condition is Very Good.”
The auction date is June 21, 2021, before I posted the video for “Wild Night,” which was the first time
it had been seen since 1979, so it is amazing that these cels survived so long.
I have to wonder what other original artwork from Hot Hero Sandwich may still be
lurking out there.
Original music video for “Wild Night” from Hot
Hero Sandwich, episode 6.
The Hot Hero
Sandwich Rundown Status Report dated July 30, 1979, provides the episode-by-episode
breakdown of interview guests, musical guests, animated segments, and sketches.
Although the cover page indicates a review of the breakdowns for episodes 1-7,
only the breakdowns for episodes 2-7 were included in the archival material. Some
revelations here are that even as late as July 30, 1979, James Taylor, the
Kinks, and the Rev, Jesse Jackson were still scheduled to appear. Images of the original documents are provided below.
Highlights from the rundowns include:
Episode 2: The Kinks
were scheduled for episode 2 to play “Low Budget” and “Superman.” Instead,
the Little River Band performed and “It’s Not a Wonder” and “Lonesome Loser.” Also,
another lost Andy Breckman song, “Do the Dipstyck,” was planned but never aired
(see “The Lost Andy Breckman Songbook” for other lost songs).
Episode 3: The Hot Hero Band was slated
to perform “Does Your Mother Know,” but like episode 2’s “Do the Dipstyck,” it
was also cut. Unclear if it was ever actually performed and recorded.
Episode 4:
Stephen Stills was scheduled to play “Love the One You’re With”
and “Everybody, I Love You.” Stills appeared, but instead of “Everybody, I Love
You” he played “Sugar Babe.”
Episode 5: James
Taylor was scheduled to perform “You’ve Got a Friend,” and “The Secret of Life”
or “IMUB.” Instead, Joe Jackson appeared performing “On Your Radio.”
Episode 6: The
Hot Hero Band was scheduled to perform “Carry Me,” but, again, the song never made it into the
final cut of the show. We have to consider this yet another lost track.
Episode 7: The
Rev. Jesse Jackson was scheduled to appear along with an unnamed “salsa band.” This
may have been a reference to the Palmieri Brothers, who
appeared in episode 8.
A minor bit of
ephemera, but in this inter-office memo we get a listing of
production staff and their office phone extensions. Not all these names appear
in the credits, so we get a fuller picture of who was working on the series. Northern Calloway (David on Sesame Street)
worked as a consultant so he was likely seldom at the office. Everyone else,
however, was putting in very long days.
2.1.Interview Segment: Gloria Steinem,
Christopher Reeve, Jimmy McNichol, and Richard Pryor on their heroes.
2.2. Captain Hero Segment: Adam
Ross, Andrew Duncan, Claudette Sutherland, Frankie Faison: Captain Hero saves
his parents from an unscrupulous landlord.
2.7.Interview Segment: Christopher Reeve on growing up without TV and comic
books.
2.8.Ym and Ur Segment: Paul O’Keefe and
Denny Dillon: Ym and Ur discuss their ages, war, cults, football (sort of),
countries, and peace (a short period of time between wars).
2.9. Interview Segment: Jimmy McNichol discusses the difficulty of moving to different
schools. Due to a malfunction with the VTR, the end of the interview is lost.
2.15:Interview Segment: Dr. Tom Cottle interviews Christopher Reeve and Jimmy McNichol
about the impact of divorce, remarriage, and frequent moves on children.
2.16. Sketch: Living in a Suitcase:
Cast member L. Michel Craig delivers a monolog about how the effects of
frequent moves on a child can last into young adulthood. Also features some
groovy 70s animation at the end.
2.17. Sketch: Don’t Sell the Van Ted!
The gang tries to convince Ted (Paul O’Keefe), the Hot Hero Café owner, not to
sell the Hot Hero Van.
2.18.Interview Segment: Dr. Tom Cottle interviews Coretta Scott King and Pam
Dawber discuss their experiences about the fear children can have for the
safety.
2:19.Animation Segment: Flying to Bermuda. A young girl narrates the animation
of her dream flying to Bermuda. When the plane crashes she goes on adventures,
but they're saved and everything works out at the end because she likes happy
endings.
2.20. Interview Segment: Christopher Reeve discusses the impact of divorce on
him. The sound cuts out for 17 seconds in the beginning before resuming. When
the sound picks up, Reeve reveals how he used his first Broadway appearance to
bring his family back together again.
While Hot Hero
Sandwich didn’t make the covers of TV Guide, it did land a cover in TV Week, Nov. 4-10, 1979, as well as the cover of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch issue of Television for the week of
Feb. 17-23, 1980, which we see here.While the St. Louis,
MO, market is an important one, it didn’t do Hot Hero Sandwich much good since by February the series had been cancelled several weeks earlier in January and was already in repeats. The rebroadcast for this week was episode
5 with celebrity interviews with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and actress Michael
Learned.
In researching and creating the first-ever episode guide for Hot Hero Sandwich, I acquired TV Guides covering the weeks Hot Hero Sandwich aired. While Hot Hero Sandwich wasn’t featured on any
TV Guide covers during its run, it did have a feature story written up about
why the show didn’t catch on with viewers in the Mar. 29-Apr. 4, 1980, issue
(see Aeolus 13 Umbra: Hot Hero Sandwich: The Late 70s TV Teen Scene). A look at the
covers reveals what was percolating to the top of American pop culture between
Nov. 10, 1979 and Jan. 26, 1980, the dates of the original run of the series, and the Mar. 29-Apr. 4, 1980 issue.
Mike Ratti, drummer for the Hot Hero Band, has been instrumental in helping me navigate the complicated and complex nature of the music business. Whenever I have a question about the music for the series, people in the industry, how things got done, and how they’ve change, Mike has been my go-to man. A master raconteur, Mike always has a story or two to illustrate his point, and he paints those stories with details that make a writer’s job much easier.
After having focused on other aspects of the series in the past year, the Hot Hero Sandwich Project returns its attention back on the music with interviews with Music Coordinator Jimmy Biondolillo and Sound Engineer Ed Stasium, and an upcoming feature highlighting Hot Hero Sandwich’s Music Director, the legendary Felix Pappalardi of the band Mountain and producer of some of the era’s top Rock acts, including Creem, The Youngbloods, and Hot Tuna, among many others.
In this interview, Mike gives us some background on the industry of the era leading up to the Seventies and reveals how Hot Hero Sandwich producers Bruce and Carole Hart inadvertently got Mike Ratti fired and along the way we’ll encounter Lynyrd Skynyrd, Ted Nugent, and find out how Stephen Stills came to perform on the show.
Hot Hero Sandwich Project: Mike, can you give me some background on what the recording session was like leading up to the Seventies. From my limited understanding, the musicians seemed to have had less input than the executives in the past than by the late 70s when the bands, at least the big ones, began to exert more control.
Mike Ratti: It was set up that you go into a studio. You had to have somebody engineer it. You had to have somebody produce it, meaning you had to have somebody representing the record label and all the powers to be, why you were in that room, and then you had to have somebody document that — a contractor.
Caricature of Mike Ratti by Hot Hero Sandwich writer Sherry Coben (1979).
Every session was like that in the music business, no matter who you were. As the business became as popular as it did in the late 50s, now 60s, where now you're having bands and musicians, it wasn't a free-for-all. They didn't allow musicians, managers, agents, to be a part of it. It was like when you come into the room — look at all those old pictures of The Beatles [in a studio], what’s everyone wearing?
HHSP: Suits and ties.
Mike Ratti: Because it was, you know, even across the pond, it was the same way.
HHSP: Right.
Mike Ratti: More and more of the business became more and more of, I mean the big money, the big concerts, the big bands, and then I'd say some probably somewhere in the 70s it started to change over where you know we're not going in with the producer, the contractor, we're bringing in our own bands . . . with the Byrds, with the Mamas and the Papas, with Led Zeppelin. . . . You did not need a contractor or a producer hired from the label.
HHSP: So, by 1979, during the production of Hot Hero Sandwich, that was the waning days of the old model, or maybe it was surpassed by then?
Mike Ratti: Yeah, it could be a window of years, but yes, that’s exactly as you say Jack.
HHSP: By now I've got nearly every scene of Hot Hero memorized, including the music and the bumpers.
On most series, the soundtrack music would be played by contracting musicians, but during my research the only actual music I hear on the series, besides the guest performances and some music videos [like Donovan’s “I Love My Shirt”], is music the Hot Hero Band itself performs, the songs, bumpers, and instrumentals — no one else, correct?
Mike Ratti: Right. I was there every recording session. I was there every meeting — and “I” meaning “we” [referring to the Hot Hero Band] . . . We’re not here to discredit anyone, just set the record straight.
HHSP: Having a house band for the show really changed the old way of doing things, particularly with Felix on board.
HHSP: Alright, let's pick up the story when the Hot Hero Band was brought together. This somehow involved the Rex Smith Band, right?
Rex, 1977: Lars Hanson, Lou Vandora, Rex Smith, Orville David, and Mike Ratti.
Mike Ratti: The Rex Band with Rex Smith and myself, we were disbanded by the management company Leber and Krebs [Note: founded by legendary managers Stan Leber and David Krebs] for Rex to go on to do Sooner or Later [1979 TV movie] with the Harts. I think I might have told you this story, but we got fired because we played Madison Square Garden. That's where, that's where Bruce and Carol [Hart] in the audience saw Rex.
HHSP: Fired? I didn’t hear that story before!
Mike Ratti: Oh, what? You've never heard that story?
HHSP: I never heard that story!
Mike Ratti: Oh, alright. Sit back . . . so, the band Rex [fronted by Rex Smith] was on tour, right? First of all, let me back up. We were managed by Leber-Krebs. Leber-Krebs were a big management company, which back in the 70s and 80s had to have. You couldn't play the game, be a part of this, unless you had a manager or management company. They were the ones that had the contacts with everybody.
HHSP: Right.
Mike Ratti: They managed . . . Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, AC/DC . . . Humble Pie when they [both] were in the states. So, they acted as the management company when the band was here. When they were overseas, they had their own management company and that's how the business was.
So, they [Leber-Krebs] had signed Rex a deal with CBS Records for five albums. In other words, they said the CBS records we have this artist, we have this band, we're going to put them out there, our responsibility, we take all the financial end, whatever . . . Well, we did one album and went on tour for a year. Did another album and went on tour for a year . . . and we were on tour with Ted Nugent and the co-headliners were Ted Nugent and Lynyrd Skynyrd.
HHSP: Oh, man, what a ticket!
Mike Ratti: So, we were on tour. We were the opening act for those two bands each night since they were co-headliners. One band would end the night, then, the next night, the other band would close. We played with them into October of 1977 and we were hanging out with Lynyrd Skynyrd that night, they said, yeah, “We'll see you up in New York at Madison Square Garden.” November 10th was the date. Same building, three bands. “We'll [Lynyrd Skynyrd] see you up at the Garden because we're heading to whichever gigs you guys are heading.”
Back up north two days later, we're on the road, it was October 20th and we got word the plane went down and there was the accident [which killed three members of the band and serious hurt the others]. So, my first thought is. “Uh oh, there goes the gig in Madison Square Garden. My family's not going to be able to come and see me.”
HHSP: What happened afterwards?
Mike Ratti: We're still playing, working our way up because we're getting closer to the city.
That was brought up at some point. I couldn't tell you exactly when and it was. It was that the show was going on. Ron Delsener, the Big New York promoter, said, “The show will go on with Ted Nugent and Rex, and that's what I said to everybody, “We're going to get the shit kicked out of us. They’re gonna boo us. They’re gonna boo us!”
HHSP: Replacing Lynyrd Skynyrd under those circumstances, not a good position.
Mike Ratti: We were like, “Oh, man! Oh, man!” So, we finally we did that date. We did, it went over. I mean, people were still talking. WNEW and Allison Steele [legendary NY DJ] raved about it the next day on the radio. She said that opening act . . . I've never seen a band like that . . . we got RAVE reviews.
It was in November, November 10th, We played couple of shows after that and then came the holidays . . .
HHSP: November 10th, what year would that be?
Mike Ratti: 1977. November 10 is the same day as the first episode of Hot Hero Sandwich [Nov. 10, 1979]. That's why this day means a lot to me — same day.
A ticket for the Nov. 10, 1977 show Lynyrd Sknyrd never made. (Uncle G's Classic Rock Concert Memories).
HHSP: So [after the holidays] in 78, we go into practice for a third album. They decide to send us up to Woodstock [NY] and rehearse and record what we're doing with Eddie Offord, a big producer, he produced Yes. So, he had a studio, I believe it was at Levon Helm’s barn, the one that burnt down.
So, we're recording and we're doing the songs that we're preparing for the third album live to see how it sounds. Eddie is just recording us and its big barn, and we're up there for a couple of weeks and around February we take some time off — and this is as early spring — I get a phone call from Leber-Krebs management at my parents’ house, which I don't live there, I just happen to be there raking the leaves, and I'm thinking it is an emergency or something's wrong, right? I didn't even know they had my parents’ number.
And I was told, “Hi Mike . . . We're having a meeting. We need everybody there. You have to come in.” I said, “OK, when?” She said “Tomorrow! But I need to get in touch with Lou [Lou Van Dora, guitar] and Lars Hanson [guitar and keyboards].” Well, Lou is on vacation in Brunswick, Georgia, where he’s from, and Lars, I think is in the city somewhere. I could track them down. I asked what about Rex? She said, don't worry about Rex.
So, I call up Lou and he jumps on the plate and we went back in that office for meeting the very next day . . . and it's the band minus Rex Smith, and we're having a meeting with David Craft at his office. He says, “Guys I know we're preparing for third album, you’re working hard, you know, we gave it a good shot . . .” I’m biting my lip because I don't like the way that sounds.
So, we're sitting there and he says, “What we decided to do was disband the group . . . we're going to go a different route with Rex . . . we have an opportunity for him to be in a made-for-TV movie special and we're going to go that route.”
So, of course, we say, what about the band? Basically, then he thought we didn't want to accept what he was saying. He said, “Look, the band is over. I'm putting him into a major TV movie.”
And we asked how did this come about? He said, “He [Rex Smith] was discovered one at one of the shows when you played Madison Square Garden [Nov. 10, 1977]. There were writers and producers out there that like what they saw and approached us. They tracked us down and gave us a pitch of what they would like to do.”
We were asking the questions and then at that point he said, “Look, the meeting is over. We’ll settle up everything.” I asked, I said “David when can we expect our last paycheck?” And he looked at his wrist — he did not have a watch on —and said “Last week.”
HHSP: Ouch! “It’s a Long Way to the Top If You Want to Rock and Roll,” huh? Were Robert Brissette and Mark Cunningham [bassist and guitarist, respectively, for the Hot Hero Band] in on this?
Mike Ratti: No. This is leading up to that. This is how it led to Hot Hero. Robert played with Rex in the band Tricks. He was asked to be in this band, but he went back to college and he said no, I'm not quitting school again, so he passed on it to be the bass player. We got Orville Davis to be the bass player. Mark Cunningham was the guitar player when Rex did the demos in a band called The Flying Tigers, which was right before this deal, he [Smith] brought tapes up to New York and got the deal, got people interested. Mark was the guitar player. It didn't work out. Mark went his way . . . with Rick Derringer, we continued as Rex.
HHSP: OK, got it.
Rex Smith, including the Hot Hero Band’s Mark Cunningham, Robert Brissette, and Mike Ratti, burn up the air waves in this promotional music video for the track “Superhero” from the album Forever.
Mike Ratti: So we were told that these people in the audience said that's the guy [Rex Smith] we want for our movie and they tracked him down.
HHSP: Let me get this straight. They saw the band Rex perform at MSG on Nov. 10, 1977. Thought Rex Smith would be perfect for their movie, reached out to the Leber-Krebs management company, who, based on that offer, decided they were going to disband the Rex band, correct?
Mike Ratti: Yes, based on he was going to make a movie, they were going to pay for everything. Now, could they have kept the band? Probably. Was that important to them, though? No, the band was still then trying to do something, but they're saying we want to do this. We're going to put him in the studio. We have the songs written to the movie. [Note: By Stephen Lawrence and Bruce Hart who also wrote the Hot Hero Sandwich theme song.]
All of a sudden it was like a “win” situation for that office based on business. They got somebody here jumping in on their bandwagon and all of a sudden they don't have to pay any money for this, — and now they did not need us. We didn't need mean anything to them.
HHSP: “Welcome to the Rock and Roll business boys. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.”
Check out a segment of music from the Rex performance on Nov. 10, 1977!
Mike Ratti: So Rex was brought into Carole and Bruce’s stable because they saw us play November 10th, 1977, at Madison Square Garden. With that, they then did the Sooner or Later movie with all of those hits and that album went gold, and who produced it? Charlie Calello.
HHSP: Jimmy Biondolillo’s mentor! Now it all comes together. Jimmy sat in on those sessions and that’s how Bruce and Carole met Jimmy. [Note: Jimmy Biondolillo became the music coordinator for Hot Hero Sandwich. See his interview with the Project for more information.]
Mike Ratti: Right. Now fast-forward less than a year and now the Harts have the Hot Hero thing that they're working on and they decide they need a band. Wouldn't it be great to have a band? The kids would love that.
They didn’t want to get studio musicians — old guys — so the Harts said, not putting words into their mouths, but what about the band and the musicians we used in the movie [Sooner or Later]?
Mike Ratti during the Rex Era.
HHSP: Although there was a band with Rex in the movie, they decided not to use anyone from the Rex band itself? Seems kind of pointless.
Mike Ratti: Well . . . I had the part but I blew it Jack. I had to do a reading with Rex and Bruce. They [his agency] sent me. The agent said, “This is his drummer. This is his look. He can talk. He's not an actor . . . I just hung out with him for an hour, just observing him. He's the perfect guy for you. He's the perfect drummer.”
Well, he came and walked into the room with the first. Bruce says, “OK, here's the line Mikey. Just go off and do it.” And I go, “Uh . . . Uh.”
“NEXT!”
HHSP: [Laughter]. Ah, the limelight . . .
Mike Ratti: Everybody that was in the band [in Sooner or Later] were actors, except for Mark [Cunningham]. Rex brought Mark in because, he said, “Look, I want something legit and he does play and I've worked with him.”
I think I think he felt bad that it didn't work out with Mark with the right band and Rex just reached out and said, “Hey, I got this little bit for you. You'll be on screen, you know, you get paid. You know how to play the guitar. It’ll be the real deal.”
And that's how Mark was brought in. They reached out to Mark based on that and said we need some musicians, do you know anybody? It’s going to be kind of like Sooner or Later, except it's going to be a TV show for kids. Mark reached out to some people and they all said, “What?”
Don't forget this is 1979, right?
HHSP: Right.
Mike Ratti: All the musicians are, “I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna be Led Zeppelin. Don't tell me what to do. I'm not going to do a TV show!” So, TV and music were separate in those days, there was no marriage like it is today. It was totally separate.
There were a couple of people that turned it down. He reached out to myself, to Robert [Brissette] and Ritchie [Annunizato], his childhood friend, and that’s how the Hot Hero Band became. Again, based on November 10th, 1977, when we played Madison Square Garden.
Ae13U: Fantastic!
Mike Ratti: If the Harts didn’t see that performance, there would be no Sooner or Later, there would be no Hot Hero.
HHSP: The two are really intertwined. It was about that time when Felix Pappalardi was tapped for Hot Hero Sandwich. According to a Nov. 24, 1979, Record World article, Carole Hart said she was with a psychic friend, along with Bruce and their film editor [presumably Hot Hero editor Patrick McMahon] who said she saw the name “Felix,” and they all immediately knew that must be Felix Pappalardi!
Mike Ratti: I could see how that definitely happened. Felix Pappalardi was now with Leber-Krebs [who managed Rex Smith] and David Krebs was dealing with Carole.
HHSP: Ok, so things are coming full circle. Regarding the details going on in the recording sessions for the show, there was the band, Felix, the engineer Ed Stasium. Jimmy Biondolillo was there at times as well, right?
Mike Ratti: Jimmy did come in a few times and I remember him sitting in the control room sitting next to Felix. He [Jimmy] had to document that [the session work] to NBC, the Harts, their people, Local 802, AFTRA — they all had to have, “What the hell did you do?” Felix didn’t do that. We didn’t do that. Did Jimmy do that? I’m going to say yes. Musical directors [like Felix] had nothing to do with it.
HHSP: I know that the musical guests were the Harts picks, but did Felix have any input there?
Mike Ratti: Stephen Stills [Episode 4] was a favor for Felix.
HHSP: Really? That’s news!
Mike Ratti: They were best friends in Greenwich Village back in the early 60s. He came in to do that as a favor. How do I know that? My path crossed with Stephen Stills when I was in LA with Rex doing what his one of his final albums in the early/late 80s, that was right after Hot Hero, and I was in an all-night supermarket, they called it the supermarket of the stars, and who was in line in front of me, Stephen Stills! I tapped him on the shoulder and I told him who I was, and he said, “Yeah, I remember that show. I did that for my buddy Felix Pappalardi. That was a favor.” So yeah, he did that as a favor for Felix.
Stephen Stills performing “Sugar Babe” on episode 4 of Hot Hero Sandwich.
As Mike Ratti details above, the Rock and Roll road is a rough one. Success can lead to failure, tragedy to opportunity, and along the way are the suits who will sell you out for the next big thing. So, why would anyone willingly go through this?
Well, for over 40 years the memory of Hot Hero Sandwich has been sustained by the performances of the band. No records, cassettes, or singles. No VHS, CDs, or DVDs, just music that was played over tiny TV speakers and then forgotten — except that it wasn’t. Probably every Hot Hero fan could recall the theme song, or the other songs, long before the internet. It's a credit to the songwriters, the band, and Felix Pappalardi.
That’s not just music. That, true believers, is magic — and it doesn’t come in a suit.
